Тетяна Трофименко: «Українська масова література — не гірша за бестселери New York Times»

Фото на колажі: Валентин Кузан, 

з виставки: Олександр Сліпченко

13 лютого у Музеї книги і друкарства України відкрилася виставка «Котляревський і сучукрліт», покликана розповісти про класика — зачинателя нової української літератури, та простежити, який вплив він здійснив на сучасну українську літературу. Кураторкою виставки стала Тетяна Трофименко — критикиня, літературознавиця, авторка книжки #окололітературне. Ми розпитали Тетяну про її шлях до сучукрліту, витоки образу критикиці, гумор у текстах, «золоті» премії та потенціал української літератури.

Від бароко до сучукрліту: що цікавіше?

Бачте, серйозне моє літературознавство стосувалося бароко, і при всій великій любові до цього періоду, мені стало нуднувато. Українська барокова література, все ж, має обмежене коло сюжетів і засобів виразності. І, написавши дисертацію про Кирила-Транквіліона Ставровецького і його збірку «Перло многоцінноє», я, як і більшість кандидатів філологічних наук в нашій країні, зіткнулася з тим, що досліджувати далі давню літературу доводиться всупереч всім життєвим обставинам, бо, окрім шкільного курсу, література не викладається широко. У Харкові я могла б це викладати тільки в педагогічному університеті чи в Каразіна, — а, захистивши дисертацію, я почала викладати що завгодно у вишах іншого спрямування: від історії мистецтв до української мови за професійним спрямуванням. Це було б дуже суттєве зусилля — продовжити займатися бароко. Всі медієвісти — це героїчні люди, які переважно викладають щось інше, а у вільний від роботи час намагаються продовжувати свої студії. Тобто, тут зійшлися дві такі обставини: з одного боку, я вже втрачала інтерес, а з іншого, вже й не мала на це достатньо часу й енергії.

Я не хочу сказати, що досліджувати сучасну літературу легше, але це цікавіше. В якийсь момент, теж завдяки життєвим обставинам, я почала читати книжки, які видаються зараз. Моя подруга Катріна Хаддад писала щотижневі нотатки для газети MediaPost про актуальні видання; вона передала мені цю рубрику, і це був серйозний вишкіл: щотижня знайти більш-менш нову книжку, про неї написати. Тоді я відкрила собі цей чарівний світ сучасної літератури.

З 2007 року я почала писати рецензії на сучасну літературу. Тоді це була проблема, а зараз я пишу раз на місяць про 5 книжок для «Новинарні» і раз на квартал про 5 книжок для журналу «ШО», і ці книжки можуть не збігатися. Тобто немає проблем з тим, щоб знайти художню книжку чи український нон-фікшн (я практично не встигаю стежити за перекладами, менше стежу за поезією). Це виявилося набагато драйвовішим, ніж дослідження давньої літератури. Але барокова традиція нікуди не поділася, і на іншому рівні виявляється і в сучасній літературі.

Через те, що я працювала в Харківському літературному музеї, я також зацікавилася 20-ми роками, хоч і не дуже широко. В Музеї зберігається архів одного з мешканців Будинку Слова Івана Дніпровського, людини з кола Хвильового, Куліша, Вишні, Любченка. І мого життя, напевне, не вистачить, щоб увесь цей архів опрацювати, але я намагаюся робити якусь частину: видавати листування, щоденники тощо.

Тепер у мене такі три точки зацікавлення: давня література, «наші 20-ті» і сучукрліт.

Критикиця й улюблена критикеса

Псевдоніми — це винахід вже останніх років; за кілька років до того, як почали думати над книжкою (йдеться про книгу #окололітературне — прим. ред.), потрібен був цікавий візуальний образ. Взагалі слово «критикиця» з’явилося в контексті обговорення фемінітивів. Ми бачимо: попри те що навіть новий правопис уже рекомендує вживати фемінітиви, у суспільстві є дуже активний спротив. І ось суто з цією метою подратувати, побісити ретроградні кола, виникли ці варіанти «критикиці» і «критикеси». Звісно, в офіційних документах я не пишу про себе, що я критикиця 🙂

Цей образ візуально виграшний; Оксана Васьків придумала його втілення для книжки, і я думаю, що ще якийсь час він буде актуальним і буде працювати.

Гумор у художніх текстах vs гумор у критиці

Огляди 5 книжок у «Новинарні» задумувалося як стьоб, але більше на часто штучно укладені добірки: «5 книг, які слід прочитати до кінця зими», «до Дня закоханих», «на пляжі» тощо. Такі огляди мене завжди дратували, бо, як правило, їхні автори беруть анотації до книжок, не тримаючи книжку навіть у руках, і на підставі цього готують огляд із такими категоричними імперативами. Під час роботи виявилося — якщо книжка не викликає в мене бажання її затролити, то я цього робити й не буду. Тому й не всі ці огляди стьобні.

Щодо того, як сприймають жарти й стьоб читачі, треба провести певне дослідження. Я бачу, звісно, що в «Новинарні» не завжди цю іронію зчитують; я часто читаю коментарі, і фактично завжди туди хтось приходить сказати, що слова «критикиця» немає і що це все бєспрєдєл. Тому розраховувати на велику аудиторію стьобних критичних рецензій не виходить. Це щастя, якщо критик може сказати, що має аудиторію понад 100 осіб, які на одній хвилі, розуміють, що мається на увазі. У книжці теж довелося зробити ще окрему кицю з табличкою «Сарказм», бо й там він не в усіх моментах відчитувався.

Не можу зробити якихось узагальнень, але ясно, що все суспільство не готове до такого.

«Золоті» премії

Премія «Золотий Хрін», як на мене, розвивається доволі інтенсивно, і хоча «Золота булька» має довшу історію, цьогоріч її вирішили не вручати, бо ніхто так виразно не «булькнув». Вручати її просто, аби не збивати традицію — не бачу сенсу, жодна книжка суттєво не розчарувала. Є певний сегмент, якому подобається саме ось такий спосіб прочитання літератури і її осмислення; мені він іманентний, і я отримую більше задоволення, коли пишу іронічно.

Але тут теж повинна бути якась межа. Мені кажуть, що, мовляв, «постаріла критикиця, зуби втратила, вже немає такої ядучої іронії», але насправді рівень текстів змінюється, я не буду тролити лиш заради того, щоб потролити. Якщо є непоганий текст з певними зауваженнями, я просто висловлю ці зауваження. Разом з тим, писати серйозно, ґрунтовно й академічно — це теж не моє.

Хайп заради хайпу чи гра з читачем/автором/текстом, щоб заохотити більше читати?

Ставлення письменників до власної творчості — завжди необ’єктивне, і ніколи не знаєш, чим образиш того чи іншого автора. Або навпаки: коли автор нічого такого не побачить у тому, що тобі здається ризиковано-іронічним. Все залежить насамперед від автора. Звичайно, є фанати і групи підтримки, які піднімають хайп у соцмережах, але якщо автор говорить: «Так а що такого, прикольно написала, трульно», то посміялися — і все, хайп спадає. Так само ставляться і до «Золотого хріна»: хтось ширить і вважає класним, що його висунули на номінанта, та навіть фактично накручує голосування на вибір серед читачів сторінки.

Хайп може бути відповіддю на хайп, але для цього теж треба мати більшу нервову витримку, ніж у мене. Ясно, що якщо маємо справу з текстом, де порушується людська гідність чи є заклики до дискримінації, тут треба реагувати гостро. Не знаю, чи кожен критик захоче у таке вв’язуватися, це складно — бути гравцем у такій грі, треба володіти усім арсеналом опонента.

В умовах, коли соцопитування стверджують, що пересічний українець майже не читає взагалі, я не ризикну говорити про якийсь вплив на масову свідомість. Але є реальні позитивні приклади, коли, прочитавши стьобну рецензію, люди зацікавлюються самою книжкою. Хтось навіть казав: «О, Трофименко затролила, треба брати». І я в принципі рада, що в такий спосіб привертається увага.

Немає, однак, такого критика, після слів якого всі побігли б читати чи навпаки відмовилися читати певну книжку. Такого імперативного підходу, на щастя, я не спостерігаю. Йдеться не про рівень довіри, а про те, що суспільство сегментоване, й універсальної вказівки тут не може бути. Це уже було би тоталітаризмом в літературознавстві.

Літкритики й журналісти vs блогери та лідери думок: хто переможе

У нас критика і буктюбери перебувають у паралельних реальностях; я все ніяк не можу знайти час сісти і передивитися хоч по декілька записів усіх топових буктюберів. Я навіть на них усіх старанно підписалася. Але це, як на мене, вже не той формат мислення: я звикла читати, я не аудіалка. Та якщо у буктюберів є своя аудиторія, яка прислухається до їхніх порад, це теж прекрасно, це один зі способів донесення інформації.

Щодо лідерів думок: згадаємо «Доцю» Тамари Горіха-Зерня, увагу на яку звернула Оксана Забужко, і хтозна, наскільки б довше ця книжка йшла до читача, якби не виступ Оксани Стефанівни.

Але лідер думки, буктюбер чи літкритик має повне право висловити своє враження, та й читач не зобов’язаний сліпо йти за цією порадою і може діяти, як вважає за потрібне.

Сцени сексу до і після «Золотого хріна»: чи поменшало в сучукрліті «розкішниць», «троянд» та солодкавих порівнянь?

Увесь 2019 рік я ходила і нила, що поганий секс у літературі зник, які ми молодці, що викорінили його і т.д., але потім напружилася — і набрала аж 10 кандидатів і кандидаток. Звісно, цього року вони були не такими феєричними, як раніше. Але ближче до кінця року я почала перечитувати деякі тексти, та й нам почали писати підписники сторінки, і в результаті, з огляду на те, що в кожної групи читачів є свої вподобання, дійшли до того, що комусь певні сцени можуть бути цілком ок, а хтось — сміється з них і тролить в коментарях, маючи інше естетичне бачення того, як це має бути написане.

Загалом автори більш уважно почали ставитися до сексуальних сцен, але сказати, що ми викорінили поганий літсекс, не можна. Старшому поколінню важче побороти усталені штампи, і їхні спроби епатажно подавати певні моменти можуть сприйматися кумедно — саме це принесло перемогу цьогорічному хріноносцю Василеві Слапчуку з його образом “курсору вологої щілини” і фразою “народ так довго не витримає!”.

Сучукрліт сьогодні vs якісний сучукрліт — які прогнози?

У ті рідкісні випадки, коли в мене з’являється час почитати переклади, я намагаюся брати не когось із відомих розкручених авторів, а те, що видається в серії бестселерів New York Times, то я там не бачу нічого такого, що можна назвати принципово кращим за нашу масову літературу. Мені здається, що наш масліт розвивається на цілком пристойному рівні.

Інша справа, що ми постійно мріємо, що в нас буде потужний інтелектуальний сектор, філософська література, яка не для всіх, і тут я вже не можу назвати авторів, яких би я беззастережно до такого сегменту віднесла. Тут теж є проблема, що кожен український автор хоче бути ще й продаваним, а писати інтелектуальні твори — це свідомо прирікати себе на те, що твої книжки купуватимуть не так масово, як Люко Дашвар чи Андрія Кокотюху. 

Більш інтелектуальні тексти в нас все одно апелюють до широкої аудиторії. Для чого писати ідеологічні романи про історичну травму, якщо не ставити собі за мету впливати на суспільство загалом? Це проблема такої літератури, яка зараз в тренді (про історію, про Голодомор, про війну); тут, мені здається, наші автори поки не досягнули балансу між інтелектуальністю і масовістю.

«Котляревський і сучукрліт»: класик завжди з нами?

Виставка відштовхується від того, що ми знаємо чи не знаємо про Котляревського, тобто спонукає більше говорити про цю постать, показати, як його творчий підхід та ідеї не зникли, а реалізовуються у творчості письменників майбутніх років.

Виставка насамперед інформативна, бо як би ми не намагалися говорити про те, що в нас загалом усе добре і рівень середній, ми повинні постійно пам’ятати, що пересічний українець не знає сучасних авторів, для нього навіть подивитися на прізвища чи побачити в експозиції книжки — уже може бути поштовхом для зацікавлення, щоб купити книжку цього автора і хоча би познайомитися з тим, що є. Якщо говорити про складніші рівні, то хотілося б, щоб склалося уявлення про сучасну літературу як жанрово і тематично багату та цікаву в стилістичному плані.

Мар'яна Хемій
Редакторка блогу. Люблю книжки, розмови, подорожі.

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